Jack,
I will insert my comments (in red) beneath your original points
which were originally posted in the guestbook.
JohnD'Arcy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email@guestbook4free.com
[mailto:email@guestbook4free.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 7:59 AM
> To: John D'Arcy
> Subject: New entry in your guestbook !
>
>
> There was made a new entry in your own guestbook
> http://www.guestbook4free.com/en/7177/entries/
>
> Here is the content :
>
> Your Name: : Jack Waite
> Your Comments: : Yesterday, I posted the following
message,
> believing Mr. D'Arcy when he said that "your
comments are appreciated."
> My comments were totally sincere. Yet, today, I see my comments
> have been deleted from Mr. D'Arcy's board. This must have
> happened in error, since I am sure that a sincere person
like Mr.
> D'Arcy would not censor legitimate, sincere comments
after he,
> himself, has requested them, and so I post my comments
now ...
> once again, and I hope that this time they will remain
on the board.
> ****************************************
> 1.) Jesus Christ is the one and only way to salvation
and redemption.
> No one can be saved except through the love, suffering
and death
> of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
>
JD Comment: Yes, Christ alone is the Savior of the world. John 14:6
is true!
Catechism: 435-455 stresses our dependence on the God-Man for
salvation,
who is Christ the Messiah, Lord, who alone was sent "to save
the people from their sins. (Mt.1:21).
> 2) This means
that to depend on any other person or organization
> for redemption and salvation is not only stupid, but
also
> idolatry...this includes reliance for salvation on the
church,
> the pope, Mary or anyone or anything else.
>
JD Comments:
Here's are the points where you begin to sound as though you have
trouble with intercessory prayer, the communion of saints, and the
corresponding prayers to saints and the Blessed Virgin Mary. These beliefs and
practices are in no way forms of "idolatry", but are commonplace to
the Catholic Christian. In the Apostles and Nicene Creed we mention the beauty
of our family unity in the body of Christ, also known as the communion of
saints. As Catholics we do not see prayers to the saints and Mary detracting
from our
devotion and the glory due to Christ the Savior. Actually, we only
seek their intercessory help as glorified older brothers and sisters in Christ
simply
because we appreciate the glory which Christ has already bestowed
upon them,
and we ask them to pray for us that we may serve Christ more
perfectly, may
walk in holiness and the life of the Spirit as they did. (see
CCC-1474-1479).
As for the Church
and our dependence on her for the life of Christ, well that too is commonplace.
I ask you to turn in your Catechism to paragraphs 737-740 for a glimpse at how
the Holy Spirit and the Church's mission are the same... a few snipets...
737 - the mission of Christ and the Holy Spirit is brought to
completion in the Church.
738- the Church's mission is not an addition to Christ and the Holy
Spirit,
but is its sacrament: in her whole being ...the Church is sent to
announce..make present, and spread the mystery of the communion of the Holy
Trinity.
739- ..through the Church's sacraments, Christ communicates His holy
and sanctifying Spirit to the members of the body.
(also PART II in the Catechism for the entire teaching on the efficacy of the sacraments actually giving us the life of grace, the means of our salvation
in Christ Jesus.)
> 3) Our redemption and salvation has already taken place,
on the
> day that Jesus Christ took our sins upon Himself and
died for our
> sake on the cross.
>
JD Comment:
All Christians agree in the infinite value of Christ's merits on the
Cross
for our salvation. He is "the lamb of God who takes away the
sins of the world." Redemption has been completed and fully accomplished
on the Cross.
Now the question lies in how God applies the graces won for us on
the Cross
to our individual souls. And Amen in that "While we were yet
sinners, Christ died for us." - St Paul in Romans.
> 4) Jesus Christ
made this redemptive sacrifice for us out of
> sheer love, and His sacrifice was a gift to us.
>
JD Comment:
Amen. There is no greater act of love than what Christ did for us in
his
becoming human, suffering and dying on our behalf.
The sacrifice was a pleasing gift to the Father. And now the gates of heaven
have been opened. Christ now sends us the Holy Spirit to apply the graces to us
personally.
> 5) No person can
earn heaven. The only way to heaven is
Jesus
> Christ.
Therefore, while we, as Christians, must imitate Christ
> to the best of our ability, and try our best to be
"good," our
> acts, our works, our supposed "goodness" do
not, in any way
> whatever, EARN us our salvation. We cannot "earn" salvation. We
> have already been saved, if we accept that salvation, by
the
> death of our Lord and Savior, which was GIVEN to us as a
free gift.
>
JD Comment:
Amen. We are saved by Christ alone, by Grace alone, by faith which
works in love.
> 6) Every sincere follower of Jesus Christ is a
"Christian" and is
> therefore part of the Body of Christ....Christ is the
Head, His
> sincere followers are the body....and that body is known
as "the
> church."
Ergo, every sincere Christian is part of the "true"
> church, which would be better called the Body of Christ.
>
JD Comment:
Agreed. There is an invisible and mystical or spiritual union of
those members of Christ's Church. But the Church is not merely an
invisible
communion but a divine institution. It has a teaching authority
given by Christ and the Spirit guides (see Jn ch14,16,21.Matt.16,18,28.)
THerefore, the Church has many offices and a hierarchy (Eph.2:20).
This Spirit-led body guides the flock into truth which is essential for true
spiritual unity (as Jesus prayed in John 17).
> 7) Jesus Christ
repeatedly prayed for Christian unity.
That
> they (we) may be ONE, even as He and the Father are
One.
> Therefore, any church leader or church member who promotes
> division in the church, by demanding that anyone belong
to a
> particular denomination or sect in order to be saved, is
not only
> wrong, but is in direct violation of the expressed
intention of
> our Lord, Jesus Christ.
JD Comments:
Note the prayer in John 17 includes: "Consecrate them in truth,
thy word is truth." It is unity in truth which is essential and guaranteed
by the instititional unity preserved by the Spirit of Christ. The promises of
Christ
to build his Church and his promises in regards to investing his own
divine authority to the Church is not to be overlooked, especially by a
Catholic such as yourself, my dear brother. The teaching authority, or
Magisterium,
is one of the greatest gifts of Christ to the Church (see Matt
16:17-19, 18:18, 28:18-20). Sacred Scripture itself is guaranteed by the
Church's precious gift of infallibility. In other words, inspiration and
infallibility (and also:the Bible and the Church) go together and are
inseparable.
>
> 8) To place our faith in a church, rather than in Jesus
Christ,
> who is God almighty, is idolatry. And, to place our faith in a
> little Jewish girl who lived 2,000 years ago, to save
us, is idolatry.
> That little Jewish girl was a wonderful Christian, and
she cared
> only for God's will, not her own. Nevertheless, she was no more
> divine than any other girl or any other human being, and
she has
> NO power whatever to save anyone. Not even herself. Because she
> is only a human being, just like you and me. Only her divine
> Son, Jesus Christ, can save anyone. To transfer our faith from
> Jesus Christ to any other person, or to any institution,
is
> idolatry, and is the work of Satanic forces.
JD Comments:
We are placing our faith in Christ and trusting in His power, for
our Lord
promised "I will build my Church."
>
> None of this is my opinion. I get all of this from Sacred
> Scripture, which is proclaimed every day, at every Mass
in the
> world, as the "Word of the Lord." If anyone thinks I am
> mis-quoting, I not only ask them, but I BEG them, to go
to the
> source of what I say, Sacred Scripture. Read the epistles of St.
> Paul in particular.
Where is it Paul denies the beauty of the Church? or her authority?
To the contrary, St.Paul asserted: "the pillar and foundation of the truth is the Church, the household of faith." (1 Timothy 3:15)
>
> I have read various translations of the Scriptures from
cover to
> cover a number of times.
JD Comments:
Then you can plainly see I'm sure that without the Church's
interpretive
assistance, many things can be difficult and misinterpreted. (see 2
Peter 3:15-16)
>
> The best Bible I have ever read (because of its many
maps,
> descriptions of Biblical times, biographies of Biblical
> personalities, and absolutely wonderful notes, which
show how the
> Bible applies to our own daily lives) is the LIFE
APPLICATION
> BIBLE, and I can not urge you too strongly to buy a copy
and to
> READ a chapter every day, along with all its notes,
etc.,
> beginning with the New Testament.
JD comments:
I urge you to purchase and read your Catholic Church's teaching on
these
matters. I'm not making this up as I go along. Get yourself a copy
of the
new Catechism-- the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Without it
you're
acting like a Protestant, who only looks to the Bible Alone. This
bankrupt and unscriptural proposition has caused denominational chaos and led
to doctrinal confusion since the Protestant revolt in the 16th century.
Attn: Jack....
another e-mail and comments attached below from your posts. please
do not
continue this guestbook posting game, especially since you seem to
be opposing many authentically Catholic doctrines. To slam your own Church is a
mystery to me my dear brother (especially your multiple "idolatry"
comments). Let us continue fruitful dialogue via e-mail as I suggested before.
thanks
JD
>
> I welcome any sincere comments.
>
> Jack"
>
> Please rate the quality of these resources... : no
opinion
> What is your denomination or faith? : Roman Catholic
> Your hometown: : Philadelphia, PA, USA
> Your e-mail address: : JWaite100@aol.com
> Your website: :
>
> The entry was made on 6/4/99 7:58:36 AM.
>
>
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> on 12/16/98 8:38:11 PM.
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POST #3
: Jack Waite
Your Comments: :
<< From:
darcyj@mindspring.com (JohnD'Arcy)
To:
JWaite100@aol.com
Jack,
i've already spoken to you twice as to the difficulty with
the idolatry
statment;
**************************************************************************************
Dear John...
I will insert my replies in various sections of your message
so that you can follow
what I am talking about. See various spots below.
Yes, you have accused me twice of being in error.
But, you have NOT ONCE explained what it is you are talking
about.
I can send you the post you have already deleted TWICE, if
you have not actually READ it, and don't remember what it said.
What it said was that there is ONE Lord and Savior and that
ONE Savior is Jesus Christ, and that there IS NO OTHER SAVIOR besides Jesus
Christ.
JD COMMENT: AMEN. CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD. THIS IS CATHOLIC
DOCTRINE AS YOU KNOW (I hope).
Is that a false statement? Does that contradict the teaching
of the Catholic Church?
It also said that NO CHURCH can save anyone. Only Jesus Christ
can save. Is that a false statement? Does that contradict the teaching of the
Catholic Church?
JD COMMENT: THE CHURCH IS A LIGHT TO THE NATIONS AND IS THE
INSTRUMENT BY WHICH THE NATIONS ARE CONVERTED. THROUGH
PREACHING,TEACHING,BAPTIZING, AND THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE SACRAMENTS.
It further said that Mary is a person just like your wife, if
you have one, and exactly like your daughters, if you have any.....in other
words, she is exactly the same as any other human woman....look out your
window...if you see a woman outside, then that woman is just like Mary. Mary is
a human person. Mary is not the false idol that the Catholic Church has made
her out to be.
JD COMMENT: MARY IS A GLORIFIED
HUMAN WHO WAS THE PERFECT DISCIPLE OF CHRIST.
CHRIST MANIFESTED HIS GLORY THROUGH HER. HER OBEDIENCE IS THE WORK OF CHRIST.
HER IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS THE WORK OF CHRIST. AND HER ASSUMPTION
IS THE WORK AND POWER OF CHRIST HER SAVIOR. THIS IS THE CHURCH's OFFICIAL
TEACHING.
Mary, being a human person, can not save anyone. Only Jesus
Christ can save. Is that a false statement? Does that contradict the teaching
of the Catholic Church?
JD COMMENT: CATHOLICS DO NOT CLAIM MARY IS THE SAVIOR.
MARY IS A POWERFUL INTERCESSOR FOR MANKIND THOUGH. HER POWER IS ONLY THAT WHICH
CHRIST HAS GIVEN. SHE HAS A SPECIAL ROLE IN HEAVEN GIVEN TO HER BY HER SON.
The answer to all those questions is: Neither the church ,
... nor Mary ... nor anyone or anything else ... other than Jesus Christ can
save anyone.
Only Jesus Christ can save. The church can not save. Mary can
not save.
Are any of those false statements? Do they contradict the
teaching of the Catholic Church?
JD COMMENTS: THE TROUBLE IS THAT YOU ARE NOT PROFESSING THE CATHOLIC FAITH
IN THE POWER IN THE SACRAMENTS OF CHRIST IN THE CHURCH FOR
SALVATION. THIS IS RATHER ESSENTIAL CATHOLIC DOGMA. ALSO, MARY ASSISTS IN THE
PLAN OF SALVATION,
NOT AS SAVIOR, BUT CERTAINLY AS AN INTERCESSOR FOR THE FAMILY OF GOD
ON EARTH.
If you have been unfair to me, it would be the Christian thing
for you to do to publicly apologize to me and to re-post my message, which I
will be happy to re-send to you if you request it.
JD COMMENTS: I BELIEVE THERE TO BE MANY DOCTRINAL POINTS OF THE
CATHOLIC FAITH WHICH YOU SEEM TO BE QUESTIONING. IT IS BEST TO BE DONE
OFF-LINE.
THE GUESTBOOK IS NOT AN ON_LINE DEBATE PLATFORM, WHICH SEEMS TO BE
THE USE YOU WISH TO CONSTANTLY REASSERT. MY WEBSITE IS FOR BUILDING UP
CATHOLICS IN THE FAITH PRIMARILY, AS A RESOURCE CATHOLICS CAN TRUST. POSTINGS
ABOUT IDOLATRY FROM FELLOW CATHOLICS IS RATHER DISTURBING, DONT YOU THINK?
I repeat my assertion that anyone or any institution which
claims that any church or Mary or any other created thing or created being can
SAVE is idolatry. Is that a false statement? Does that contradict the teaching
of the Catholic Church?
JD COMMENTS: IT SEEMS TO ME YOU HAVE MANY MISUNDERSTANDINGS
REGARDING THE CATHOLIC FAITH WHICH ARE TRULY DISTORTIONS, NOT THE REAL THING.
YOU ARE ATTACKING THAT WHICH YOU DONT SEEM TO KNOW. AS FOR THE POINT JUST MADE
ABOVE,
WE DO NOT CLAIM ANYONE BUT GOD TO SAVE SINNERS. CHRIST ALONE IS THE
SAVIOR!
BUT CREATURES CAN ASSIST ONE
ANOTHER ON THE ROAD TO HEAVEN BY THEIR GOOD WORKS AND PRAYERS. AS ST.PAUL
URGES: PRAY FOR ONE ANOTHER.
I HOPE THESE COMMENTS HAVE BEEN CHARITABLE AND HAVE BEEN CLEAR.
I'D BE HAPPY TO RESPOND TO ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
PEACE AND GRACE OF CHRIST TO YOU,
JOHND'ARCY
**************************************************************************************
I am surprised to hear it, especially from a catholic. for a
Catholic brother to make such an assertion about the teaching
is beyond my
understanding.
**************************************************************************************
AGAIN, I ask you to show me how I am in error....what falsehood
am I stating?
Where am I wrong?
**************************************************************************************
It sounds as though you have been spending quite a bit of
time with our separated breathren, who have a great difficulty
with the
Marian dogmas, praying to Mary and the saints, as well as the
basic idea of
the communion of saints.
**************************************************************************************
I profess my belief in the Communion of Saints each time I
attend Mass, (and I
have not missed a Mass, except on two occasions, in decades,)
when I join in the recitation of the Creed.
Of course, I believe in the Communion of Saints. What has
that to do with salvation?
No saint can save anyone.
Only Jesus Christ is our Savior. No one else.
Do you seriously have a problem with that?
**************************************************************************************
I suggest you simply read the Catechism of the
Catholic Church to rediscover our faith my dear brother.
Peace of Christ,
JohnD'Arcy
**************************************************************************************
I suggest that you begin reading Holy Scripture....the
Bible....the Book which is proclaimed to be the WORD OF GOD at every Catholic
Mass, every day, everywhere in the world.
If the Catholic Church PROCLAIMS the Bible as the WORD OF THE
LORD, then
why are you so deathly afraid to READ it for yourself?
I will look forward to your replies.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
**************************************************************************************
Please rate the quality of these resources... : very bad
What is your denomination or faith? : Roman Catholic
Your hometown: : Philadelphia
Your e-mail address: : JWaite100@aol.com