Madaris, Medearis, Medaris, McDaris, McDearis, Medaries Family Tree

DNA Project


Family Tree Home Page
http://www.mindspring.com/~kellcin/index.htm

UPDATE

01/27/2012

Information is finally beginning to be narrowed down, but, we still do not have any good matches DNA wise.  There still is confusion among many people when they look at the information as presented, but one must learn to use the tools provided to get the correct picture.  This is why I have not put raw data from our DNA onto this site regarding matches.

As noted in the previous update, which is still shown below, there is still an imbalance in testing world wide.  England, Ireland, Scotland and The UK, continue to be the most widely tested areas where Spain, Portugal and other Spanish countries have a minimal set of data to compare to.  This continues to provide a false view of peoples connection, who likely have Spanish backgrounds.  However, this may be working to give us information in a back door kind of way.  Although our closest matches so far are still Ireland, Scotland and England, closer analysis is becoming easier and more reliable at this time.  I will show you the numbers below for the persons we match.

Given is the surname of the individual who matches us.  Country of origin if known.  Match is how closely they match us, and TIP is the estimated time to our Common Ancestor.  All information is based on my DNA with 37 markers compared.  Remember I am the 12 Generation from Domingo, 10 Generations from John Thomas.

Surname
Country
Markers
TIP Results
Years
Medearis
Uncertain
 2 off
96% in 12 generation or 300 years. (this would be John Thomas, which is correct !)
abt. 1711
McDonald
Uncertain
3 off
97.23% chance in 24 generations or 600 years, 99.23% in 28 gen's or 700 years
1211 - 1311
O'Conner
Ireland
4 off
98.19% chance in 28 generations or 700 years or greater
before - 1311
Toler
Unlisted
4 off
98.36% chance in 28 generations or 700 years before - 1311

The fact that we are looking at least 24 to 28 generations back, where are our most recent connections?  Most of us are 12 - 13 generations from Domingo, so we are talking twice as far back  Where were these peoples ancestors 600 to 700 years ago?  When did they move into Ireland or England?   We have to have true matches at 300 to 400 years ago to determine our true picture.  The fact that we do not have any recent matches in that time frame may be telling of the fact our cousins are in countries with low testing and just have not been found yet. 

I will continue to update as information comes in, but it will be very slow, likely years, before we get any good connections.


03/08/2011

  Well it's been a little while since I have updated our DNA information.  The reason being, is that DNA technology is not to the point yet where we can get a definitive answer, and with the comparisons available, the results can be very misleading.  Lets take a look at the two charts below.  The chart on the left shows the countries where we have meaningful matches at only 12 markers and the order in which we rank.  Ireland is number 1 with a match of 2.2% and Spain has a match of only 0.3%.  This seems to indicate that we are genetically from Ireland.  The problem, however, is with the testing.  Some countries have a high level of testing and some do not.  The chart on the right shows the order based on the number of people tested.  Ireland is number 2 in the participants of the DNA project with 12,841 people tested, where Spain is 6th place with only 3, 160 people tested.  If we try to calculate the future of testing and assume the percentage will remain the same based on the number of people tested, our highest matches are actually with Iceland and Australia, as we have 0.7% with only 134 and 145 people tested so far respectively.

This is with 12 marker testing which has been shown to be inconclusive for DNA testing connections at or prior to Domingo.  But this is the information that many are using to draw their (inaccurate) conclusions.  To get a true picture we have to use the 37 marker results, which provide a more clear picture. (scroll down for more discussion).


CountryMatchesTotal TestedPercentage

CountryTotal Tested
1Ireland28712,8412.2%
1England22,042
2Australia11340.7%
2Ireland12,841
3Iceland11450.7%
3Germany11,147
4Scotland3810,3420.4%
4Scotland10,342
5Belgium24730.4%
5United Kingdom9,682
6Spain93,1600.3%
6Spain3,160
7United Kingdom279,6820.3%
7Italy3,150
8Wales51,8870.3%
8France3,040
9England4622,0420.2%
9Russian Fed.2,810
10France73,0400.2%
10Wales1,887
11Italy63,1500.2%
11Finland1,607
12Finland11,6070.1%
12Netherlands1,560
13Germany811,1470.1%
13Sweden1,503
14India11,2680.1%
14India1,268
15Netherlands21,5600.1%
15Norway1,226
16Northern Ireland16880.1%
16Portugal733
17Norway11,2260.1%
17Northern Ireland688
18Portugal17330.1%
18Belgium473
19Sweden11,5030.1%
19Iceland145
20Russian Federation12,810<0.1%
20Australia134


If we go to our 37 markers, we have a different picture, but we also still have a limited number of tests to work with.  Because of the expense many countries have very limited 37 marker testing results.  This is where our truth will be found, but it may be many years before it occurs.

37 marker 1 Step Mutation Indication a close relation (We only have one match)
Spain with 1 match out of 1,212 people tested or 0.1%

37 marker 3 step Mutation Indication of a distant relation (We only have one match)
Scotland with 1 match out of 6,947 tested or <0.1%

37 marker 4 step Mutation Indication of a very distant relation
England with 1 match out of 13,983 or <0.1%
Ireland with 14 match out of 6,991 or 0.2%
United Kingdom with 2 match out of 4,967 or <0.1%

What this example shows is that our closest match so far, although with only one match is Spain, in the most recent testing, with Ireland and Scotland our next closest but with more mutations (genetic distance).  More mutations show a more distant connection and a greater amount of time.  I believe that this represents our connections to Ireland and Scotland to be relations to Domingo, perhaps his brothers or cousins, who did not come to the US.  They are not testing to be direct ancestors of ours, but close ancestors of ours.  But the one test from Spain suggest a direct ancestor connection with only 1 step mutation occurring.

But like I said previously, DNA is inconclusive at this point and we must wait a few years for more testing to occur and some of the other countries to reach the level of testing that Ireland, England and other European countries have obtained.

Now I will show you how our DNA tells a story of our ancient migration.  I am going to break down our Haplogroup R1b1b2a1b5.  This is a technical way of classifying the end point of our Long hand as noted next.

Long Hand=
M42,
M168,  Appeared in Northern Africa, known as "Adam" or "Eurasian Adam" by researchers..
M89, Climate changes 40,000 years ago pushed this clan out of North Africa into Arabia.
M9,  Places us in the Arabia. Modern day, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
M45, 35,000 years ago, moved into Norther Arabia into today's Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Southern Siberia.
(R) M207, This group moved Westward north of the Caspian Sea toward Eurasia, about 30,000 years ago.
(1)
M173,  The intial wave of humans moving into Eurasia about 18,500 years ago
(b) M343, Known as Cro-Magnon, this group dominated expansion into Western Europe. Responsible for cave paintings
(1)
P25,  (b) P297, (2) M269,  Mainly Western Europe
(a)
L11, (1) P310, (b) P312,  Throughout Europe
(5) L21   (?)

L21 is the newest testing available at this point.  All we know for sure is that we are (5)L21 and are negative for the following test:

-M37 =  Found in some European Australians
-M222= NW Ireland, W Scotland, "Niall"
-P66 = Italy
-U106 = Western Europe, Most common British Ilse, esp. England
-SRY2627 = Iberia, SW England and Ireland
-M65= Basque
-M153= Spanish, New World Latinos

Now the negatives above, do not declude us from any location, as these are "Sub Groups" of common groups.  We are still waiting to be included in a known group, and honestly at this point it could be any group in Europe.  However, the fact that we have tested negative more than positive leads to the belief that we will tie into an area that has had the least amount of testing so far, rather than one of the areas with the most test results available to compare to today.

I hope this made sense to everyone, I know it is probably hard to follow if you have not familiar with all the facts.

Continue below to see an explanation of our DNA and the earlier matches and information.


Listed are the volunteer participants who have signed up for the project. For privacy purposes they will be posted by a private ID number only. 

In order to be accurate we need as many from each branch as possible.

Results will be posted as they are determined. Matches will be based on the majority as they develop.

Match Type by Color

ID Last Line Y-Search ID Match Halotype 393 390 394/19 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389I 392 389II 389B 458 459a 459b 452 455 456 454 437 438 441 442= 444 445 446 447 448 449 460 461 462 463 464a 464b 464c 464d 570# 576 GGAAT1B07 YCA11 YGATAA10 607 635 YGATAC4 GATA H4.1 GATA H4 CDY a CDY b
Domingo's DNA by compiling results 13 24 14 10 11 15 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 18 9 9 30 11 14 11 15 12 14 18 12 12 14 24 19 29 11 12 11 24 15 15 17 17 ? 18 10 19 - 23 15 15
24 21 11 36 37
2 Madaris Charles  YMV4A 39/40 R1b1b2a1b5  13 24 14 10 11 15 12 12 11 13 13  29 16 18 9 9   11  14 11 15  12   13/18    12   24 19 29 11       15  15   17 17  18 18   19 - 23   15
  21 11 36 37
3 Medearis Oliver
15/15 R1b1b2a1b5                          
9 9 30   14 11 15   14 18 12 12 14           11          

10   15

24  


4 Medaris Rice
33/33 R1b1b2a1b5 13 24 14 10 11 15 12 12 11 13 13 29 16 18 9 9   11 14 11 15 12 14 18 12 12 14 24 19 29 11 12 11 24 15 15 17 17

10 19 - 23 15

24 21


5 Other N/R
26/43 R1b 12 26 14 11 11 16 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 17 9 10 30 11 15 11 15 12 14 16 12 12 13 25 19 29 10 13 11 24 15 15 17 17

9 19 - 22 14

23 20


6 Madaris Charles
14/14 R1b1b2a1b5                          
9 9 30   14 11 15     18 12 12 14           11          

10   15

24  


7 Madaris Rice
22/22 R1b1b2a1b5 13 24   10 11  15  12  12  11  13 13 29  16 
9 9     14 11   12           24 19   11              

  19 - 23  

   


 8 Smith ** Charles  GW94S  21/21 R1b1b2a1b5 13 24 14  10 11 15 12 12 11 13 13 29   18 9 9 30 11 14 11 15  12 14 18 12 12 14 24 19 29 11 12 11 24 15 15 17 17

10 19 - 23 15
24   22*


9  Lunsford**  Rice FBZ75 43/43 R1b1b2a1b5  13 24  14   10  11  15 12  12   11  13  13 29    18 9 9 30 11 14 11 15 12 14 18 12 12 14 24 19 29  11 12 11  24 15 15 17 17

10 19 - 23 15
24   22*


10 Medearis John
34/36 R1b1b2a1b5 13 24 14 10 11 15 12 12 11 13 13 29
18 9 9
11 14 11 15 12
13


24 19 28 11


15 15 17 17 17 18
19 - 23
15


11 36 37
11McDarisRice
25/25R1b1b2a1b51324
101115121211131329
18


11
11
12




24192911


15151717


19 - 23



22*


* Gata H4.1 is tested differently with Ancestry.com, SMGF and FTDNA.  The Ancestry match for this marker is 22, which is equivalent to SMGF findings of 21 and therefore is the same as those listed above.

**Experienced an explainable name change

= DYS 442 is 18 through Sorenson, but 13 by FTDNA and is merely a lab standard difference, but results are a match.  Those who test through both services will show dual results.

# DYS 570 has only been tested by FTDNA and the two people tested have different results.  This likely demonstrates a gene mutation since the common ancestor connection.  This can then be a useful identifier if someone is trying to connect to a particular lineage, ie. John vs Charles, rather than trying to connect to the Descendants of Domingo at large.  Only two people have had the 37 marker test through FTDNA so we do not have 570 for Rice, Oliver or Massey.  Since both matches are different they are shown as mismatches to Domingo until we know which is the more common marker.

 What does this all mean?

The math says we are all related. If we use 1950 as a reference point, and consider on average that 25 years is a generation, which is accepted by most DNA genealogical theories; we will see how quickly we are all related together.  Every person has 2 parents, who also had 2 parents and so on and so on.  That means I have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents and etc....  By the time we get to the year 975 AD or just 975 years ago,  we have an astounding 549 billion grandparents.  That is more people than were alive at the time.  Most sources have the entire population of Europe at around 38 million in 1000 AD.  Therefore, anyone with a European ancestry share a common ancestor in much less than 975 years ago.  And by the way that is only about 39 generations.  Mathematically we all share common grandparents and our tree limbs criss cross many times.

Haplogroups

    The haplogroups are the major branches on the Y chromosome tree, defined Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs), which have accumulated along different lineages as Y chromosomes are passed from father to son over many generations. All haplogroups ultimately descend from a single Y chromosome carried by a male that lived in the distant past. The topology of the Y chromosome tree can be reconstructed by typing mutations in different human populations – as more SNPs are discovered (e.g., M254), the structure of the tree changes. Originally, the Y Chromosome Consortium (YCC) arbitrarily defined 18 haplogroups (A-R), which represent the major divisions of human diversity based on Y chromosome SNPs. Currently there are 20 haplogroups (A-T). In turn, each of these major haplogroups has numbered subgroups, or subclades, that are named with alternating letters and numbers.
(From FTDNA)

What does that mean?   There are three ways to look at this.

You can follow the long hand groups on the National Geographic's Genographic Project and follow our path from Adam up to the last 30,000 years ago.   It will demonstrate our tract from Africa to Europe.  This is if you believe in the Scientific Models.  I will tell you up front that I am more in line with the Biblical models that lead us along the same tract from the Middle East to Europe.  I believe that with only a few exceptions that the Scientific models agree with the Biblical views.  However keep in mind that the Scientific models only account to current findings in the archealogical picture and do not account for future discoveries that are yet to be made. As more and more discoveries are made, they do swing more towards the Biblical view.

The Genographic project is not as updated as FTDNA as far as haplogroups.  Their key interest is distant past or Deep Ancestry.  They will take you to the point of M173 which is estimated to be about 30,000 years ago and marks the arrival of our ancestors to the European stage.

You can view our information at the Genographic project by using the link below.  Go to the tab "Your Genetic Journey" and enter the password:  FWP3DXT739

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/index.html

L21+ is a new discovery that has only been tested for since about November 2008.  It is not determined just yet what it will tell us other than it divides P312 into a subclade of L21+ or L21-.  So far most of those who have been tested L21+ are of Irish and Scottish descent, but the testing is one sided at this time, because the majority who have tested had a known Irish or Scottish background.  Further testing (greater than 2 months) is needed with a much wider range of participants to determine the significance of L21+.  It is not surprising that Irish and Scottish will test positive as well as Domingo since they do share a common background whereas they all ascended from Celtic ancestry.

When you look at the numbers of DNA matches it can be confusing at times as well as misleading.  Below is a sampling of our DNA matches on FTDNA's list.

Our 12 Marker Matches


    I have upgraded to 37 markers in order to clarify closer matches with worldwide testing.  However what I am finding so far is that worldwide testing standards appear to be using only 12 markers.  So what happens is when we compare to 12 markers our closest matches will tie us with Spanish settled countries.  When we test higher markers we will match  more closely with European countries such as Ireland and England who have started higher marker testing such as 37 or 67 markers.  What I feel this demonstrates is a picture of distant and recent connections.  This variation of matches follows closely the path of migration as demonstrated on our History Page, where our ancestors migrated into Iberia along the southern coast, northward through modern day Portugal, then westward through Northern Spain.  Moving northwards through France, likely with the Huguenot movement, our family then separated, Domingo coming to the New World and other family members moving through England and eventually into Ireland.  Since Domingo is the only known Maderas to move into the US, most of our matches overseas will connect back to distant cousins through a brother or brothers of Domingo, or at the very least a male cousin.  It does appear that our family left Spain and settled in all of the known Spanish settlements known for migrations of religious freedoms.

Country Tested Matches Percentage
Country Tested Matches Percentage
Australia (144) 1 0.069
Netherlands (1166) 1 0.08
Barbados (16) 1 6.25
Norway (945) 1 0.10
Belgium (357) 1 1.28
Russian Federation (2345) 1 0.04
Canada (171) 1 0.58
Scotland (7666) 27 0.35
Colombia (74) 1 1.35
Spain  (1205) 5 0.41
England (16991) 33 0.19
Sweden (1205) 1 0.41
Finland (1000) 1 0.10
United Kingdom (7683) 13 0.16
France (2340) 4 0.17
UK -British Isles " 1 0.01
Germany (8293) 6 0.07
UK - Great Britain " 3 0.03
Iceland (135) 1 0.74
UK - Shetland Islands " 1 0.01
India (1104) 1 0.09
United States (1273) 1 0.07
Ireland (9556) 222 2.32
Wales (1371) 3 0.21
Italy (2443) 5 0.20
- - - -
Mexico (630) 1 0.15
- - - -

When we look at the table above, we see that our highest three matches are Ireland with 222, England with 33 and Scotland with 27.  I admit I was confused when I first saw these numbers.  Were we wrong all along about Domingo?  Then I had to go back to math school.  It is not the highest number that counts it is the highest percentage of matches that counts.  Because of the variable of how many have been tested in various places you have to look at the percentage. When  we look at comparisons we see the truth.

Country Tested Match = Percentage
Ireland (9556) 222 = 2.32 %
England (16991) 33 = 0.19 %
Scotland (7666) 27 = 0.35 %
Barbados (16) 1 = 6.25 %
Columbia (74) 1 = 1.35 %

When we look at the percentages, we can clearly see that although Ireland has the highest number of matches, we significantly match more in Barbados, and with such a small sampling in Columbia we can expect that percentage to rise exponentially as more are tested.  The significance of the matches with Barbados and Columbia is that they are known recent migration routes for people from Northwestern Spain, known as Galicia.  We also know that the Celts moved from the Iberian Peninsula around the Bay of Biscay up into England and Ireland.  So we begin to see the picture of our relations and connections.

Now if we look at our 1 step Mutations, which takes us back significantly in time (approximately 100 generations or 3,100 years), we see an even bigger shift to the Spanish matches.  When you look at the tables below you have to keep in mind the history of the countries that have the highest percentages.  I will explain below the chart.

1 Step Mutations
Country Tested Match Percentage
Country Tested Match Percentage
Country Tested Match Percentage
Algeria (46) 1 2.17
Finland (1000) 4 0.4
Norway (945) 10 1.05
Australia (144) 1 0.69
France (2340) 40 1.70
Poland (2519) 5 0.19
Austria (386) 3 0.77
Germany (8293) 71 0.85
Portugal (556) 4 0.71
Bahamas (42) 1 2.38
Haiti (14) 1 7.14
" Azores 1 0.17
Belgium (357) 6 1.68
Iceland (135) 2 1.48
" Madeira 2 0.35
Brazil (46) 1 2.17
India (1104) 1 0.09
Puerto Rico (178) 5 2.80
Canada (171) 3 1.75
Ireland (9556) 347 3.63
Russian Federation (2345) 1 0.04
Colombia (74) 1 1.35
Italy (2443) 7 0.28
Scotland (7666) 166 2.16
Cuba (81) 2 2.46
Lithuania (695) 1 0.14
Senegal (82) 1 1.21
Czeh Republic (381) 1 0.26
Luxembourg (32) 3 9.375
South Africa (119) 2 1.68
" Bohemia 1 0.26
Mexico (630) 6 0.95
Spain (2263) 17 0.75
Denmark (582) 5 0.85
Netherlands (1166) 22 1.88
Sweden (1205) 5 0.41
England (16991) 266 1.56
Netherlands Antilles (4) 1 25
Switzerland (1180) 8 0.67
" Yorkshire 1 0.005
Northern Ireland (457) 6 1.31
United Kingdom (7683) 91 1.18










Wales (1371) 25 1.82

Project that we have joined

These are the projects we have joined through FTDNA for research purposes, click on a project to visit the site and view more information.
With the Iberian Peninsula Project we have Genetically matched with Echeverri (of Colombia) and Torrejón (of Cuba) who are both confirmed Basque people.  Both names are place names in Navarre, Spain.

       

 
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Here are the test values for a 12 marker test per the FTDNA standards.

Perfect match (12/12): RELATED Your perfect 12/12 match means you share a common male ancestor with a person who shares your surname (or variant). These two facts demonstrate your relatedness, however if your name is one of the most common surnames, i.e. Smith, Tailor, Miller, etc, (trades or towns) then we always suggest you utilize additional markers to eliminate the possibility of a coincidental surname and genetic match.

One marker off (11/12): Possibly Related. You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only one 'point' on only one marker. For most closely related or same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2. To ensure that the match is authentic you should utilize additional markers.

Two markers off (10/12): Probably Not Related: You share the same surname (or a variant) but are off by 2 'points' or 2 locations on just 12 markers. It is only possible that you and another related family members' line each have had a mutation. There are two ways with DNA testing to confirm or deny. One is to test additional family members to search for a line that shows a mutation that is 1 point closer to your sample. The other is to test additional markers. Refining greatly enhances science’s ability to determine relatedness -- geared towards the most accurate assessment of the number of generations to a shared ancestor. Only by further testing can you find the person in between each of you...this in 'betweener' becomes essential for you to find, and in their absence we feel you are not related.

9/12 - is too far off to be considered related. Unlikely but vaguely possible that the rule for Probably Not Related applies.

8/12 - You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person within thousands of years.

7/12 - You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person within thousands of years.

<5/12 - You are totally unrelated to this person.

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  Here are the test values for the 25 marker test  

25/25 match   Related  Your perfect 25/25 match means you share a common male ancestor with a person who shares your surname (or variant). These two facts demonstrate your relatedness.  

24/25 match   Related   You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only one 'point' on only one marker. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is very high.  

23/25 match  Probably Related.   You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by two 'points' among the 25 markers we tested. For most closely related and same surnamed individuals, the mismatch markers are usually either DYS 439 or DYS 385 A, 385 B,389-1 and 389-2 from our first panel of 12 markers, and on the following from the second panel: DYS #'s 458 459 a 459b 449, 464 a-d, which have shown themselves to move most rapidly. The probability of a close relationship is good, however your results show mutations, and therefore more time between you and the other same surnamed person.  

22/25 match  Probably Related    You share the same surname (or a variant) but are off by 3 'points' or 3 locations on the 25 markers tested. If enough time has passed it is possible that you and another distantly related family members' line each have had a mutation, or perhaps 2. The only way to prove that is to test additional family lines and find where the mutation took place. Only by further testing can you find the person in between each of you... this in 'betweener' becomes essential for you to find, and in their absence the possibility of a match exists, but further evidence should be pursued.  

21/25 is too far off to be considered related. Unlikely but vaguely possible that the rule for ONLY “Probably Not Related” applies. It is important to determine what set of results (or haplotype) most typifies 'most' members of the group you are close to matching. You may be 21/25 with an individual, but 23/25 with the center (most common) of the group, and your potential relatedness to him is through the center of the group.  

20/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 2,000 years.  

19/25 You are not related and the odds greatly favor that you have not shared a common male ancestor with this person in excess of 5,000 years.  

<19/25  You are totally unrelated to this person.  

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UPDATE ON PROGRESS OF DNA TESTING

The DNA testing has finished and our Actual Haploytpe is R1b1b2a1b

in shorthand that is M269 (S116)+

In longhand we are:  M269+ rs34276300+ M153- M222- M37- M65- P66- SRY2627- U106- U152-

We have tested negatives for all of the sub categories of M269 listed below.  But we did test positive for rs34276300 (S116).  

    So what does R1b1b2a2 (S 116) mean?   Well this is interesting as (S116)+ is a relativelly new discovery in DNA.    Being new it is not completely clear what the origins are prior to our Iberian connection.  We have genetically tested and connected to Basque origins, we are also likely Celtic, pre Ireland.  Keep in mind when we talk about (S116) we are thinking very distant time, >10,000 years ago.  Our Domingo is certainly Spanish and we have genetically proven that.  I will be completely rewriting this page soon to make our DNA information clear for everyone and keep you updated on our findings.    This will not tell us about Domingos' parents but will provide our travels and existence through history, possibly all the way back to Noah !